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Bob Bain

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More Bishop Stuff (Alan) [Dec. 28th, 2006|09:29 pm]
Bob Bain
[Current Mood |melancholymelancholy]

This is a rich text file and takes some time to download;

Link to JohKersey.org (Succession of Bishops) from Peter (Rich Text Format) - [document 105 pages]

Line from Paul IV

§ Robert Vincent Bernard Dawe, Bishop of California, Independent Catholic Church International, who on 16 June 1982 consecrated:
§ Alan Maxwell Bain, who on 28 May 1983 consecrated:
§ Nils Bertil Alexander Persson (b.1941), Primate of the Apostolic Episcopal Church, who on 27 July 1985 consecrated:
§ Thomas Illtyd Thomas (b.1918), Primate of the Celtic Catholic Church, who on 29 July 2006 consecrated:
§ John Kersey (b.1972)

The entry for Alan is a bit confusing in Alan's book (Bishops Irregular) with suggestions of some later "consecration" by B. Persson of Sweden (1983) which is where I believe he was bestowed a doctorate which I note in later years he didn't refer to very much.

I note Bishop Persson appears to be listed in the document above:

"Most particularly, I must credit Archbishop Bertil Persson (the most comprehensive and dedicated researcher in this field in modern times), Bishop Lewis Keizer, the late Mar Georgius (to whom belongs the credit for the outlines of church histories from his "Successio Apostolica" etc) and other authors whose names in some cases are not indicated on the documents in my possession. A major source from which I have used information is ++Persson's "The Apostolic Successions of the Apostolic Episcopal Church", published by the Apostolic Episcopal Church and St Ephrem's Institute, Solna, Sweden in 2004 (2nd revised edition). Should there be any additions or corrections to these tables, please contact me using the information on my homepage. The information here is not quite exhaustive, but it does show all the main lines."

I believe Alan placed more faith in the second "consecration" than the first. I note that the consecrations above refer to Bishop Persson being consecrated by Alan but Alan's entry for Bertil Persson reads "Cons. Conditionally 28 May 1983 by A.M. Bain who received conditional consecration in return."

(Trevor/Jenny - for reference purposes if interested - noting that there's nothing in Alan's biographical writings about how all this came to be although I recall he once explained it to me some years ago and inference can perhaps be obtained from some of his biographical writings - especially the part regarding his near death experience at Canvey Island when at least one of his childhood friends lost his life.

Now if I was a Catholic I'd understand what a consecration is (sigh)

From: (Anonymous)
2009-03-18 01:53 pm (UTC)

Episcopal Consecration

I believe that the point here about "conditional" consecration mentioned here is this. Just as with Baptism, the sacrament of being ordained as a Deacon, or a Presbyter (priest) or Bishop can only be administered ONCE.

Say, a child was probably baptised as an infant. Family anecdotal evidence supports that but the Church records were destroyed by a tornado. Also said child cannot produce a Baptismal Certificate as the family has mislaid it or whatever.

It would be disastrous on one hand to deny Confirmation to a child of God who HAS been already baptised. On the other hand it would go against the canon and not be valid to confirm if the suggested baptism did not in fact occur. Simple solution, which is really belt and braces, a CONDITIONAL baptism using the form of words .... " N. or M. IF you are NOT already baptised then I baptise you in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit ..." {My emphasis.} This is going to cover the bases.

So both of these Bishops performed a CONDITIONAL consecration just in case the other was not already consecrated. On that note, I believe that just for that reason Episcopal bishops in the U.S. normally have at least three bishops performing the consecration of a new bishop; when only one bishop is actually needed per Tradition and practice. So if there is any future defect discovered in a single line of one of the consecrating bishops that the new bishop and every thing he has done is still valid. This is really nothing more than C.Y.A. and it does not matter whether the bishops are Roman, Anglican or Orthodox so long as their lines of Apostolic succession are verified as being of the Catholic tradition. So I cannot declare myself as a Bishop and start ordaining priests just on my own volition. It is necessarily for the Church at large to have discerned the call.
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